We have analyzed "The Rocking-Horse Winner" through a typical Marxist reading (which means that we used economic theory to interpret the story). The story is a critique of Capitalism, an economic system that upholds greed and money. According to the story, this greed poisons everything, perverting all human relationships. The mother cannot love her husband or her children.This story critiques capitalistic greed because it cripples a sense of satisfaction in people's lives. In a capitalistic system, people can never have enough money. The house is constantly haunted by whispers, showing the constant worries people endure because their greed encourages them to live outside their means. Paul tries to assuage these fears through work that raises money. He furiously rides his rocking horse, which mysteriously gives him the knowledge of upcoming horse race winners, which enables him to gamble and win money. Even though Paul wins lots of money, his mother can foolishly squander it faster than he can make it. So Paul must continue to ride his horse in order to bet, and this ultimately leads to his death. The story shows the plight of oppressed workers who literally are forced to work themselves to death to created wealth for big business who are never satisfied with their outputs.
But that is not the only valid interpretation. I have provided John Humma's essay titled "Pan and the Rocking-Horse Winner." Read his essay and see how he builds upon the previously mentioned interpretation to create a new idea. Analyze his argument and see if it is good.
Once you finish an argument, you must always:
1. Accurately summarize the argument in 1-3 sentences. Be fair and do not color summary with any biases.
2. Acknowledge good points. What points are strong, and why are they convincing? How do they support the argument's claim?
3. Discover any weak points to argument. Does essay use any faulty logical conclusions, fail to explain a connection between ideas, or not provide enough evidence to argue claim?
4. Decide if this is a valid argument. Why or why not?
89 comments:
The importance of Paul and his mom's conversation is that it is the story's central conflict and it leads to an extremely important dimension in the story that is unnoticed. Paul's confusing between "filthy lucker" and "filthy lucre" is strategic to the story's meaning as well as the pivotal association is makes to create the plot.
Snodgrass says that, " it is clear that the story is talking about some sort of religious perversion." The argument is that we aren't sure of what sort of religious perversion, who the strange gods are,and how Paul serves them and receives information from them.
In the fifth century B.C. pans story evolved when his cult began to reach beyond Arcadia. Athens made him one of its gods and dedicated to him a cave shrine for his represented part in the victory at Marathon over the Persians. Also Agamemnon is a character made to represent Pan.
"Isolates himself more and more into mechanism", means that Paul keeps riding the horse over and over again and becoming closer and closer to "mechanism" which in the writing means death. This quote is saying that Paul will eventually die if he doesn't get away from mechanism
A symbolic diminishment is something that is a symbol but is hidden behind other things in the story so that it is harder to reveal the truth about the symbol.
The argument was that the Pam myth can be directly related to The Rocking Horse Winner.
I think that a good point was made when Basset was compared to the opposite of Pan. Pan always being involved with nature, and Basset is the opposite by being a gardener.
I really don't think that this argument is really the best one out there. Yes, he does have a solid, logical backing when he mentions that Lawrence was obsessed with the mythical god while he wrote this story. That, I think is a good point, because yes, when I'm obsessed with say, a song, I might integrate it into one of my own stories, but at the same time, if it really has nothing to do with what I'm writing, I don't.
I think a weak point in the argument is that Pan is never directly referenced in the story. Even the myth of Pan is not mentioned.
I do not think it is a valid argument. I think the story is better to be related to a criticism of the capitalist system then the Pan myth. Without any direct link to Pan or even the myth of Pan it's hard to believe that the Pan myth is what the author of The Rocking Horse Winner was going for.
I think that Humma starts out with a weak point. Yes, the words lucre and lucker may not rhyme or sound exactly the same, but they do have enough similarity that a young child could confuse the two. When I was a young child, I thought grilled cheese was actually "girled" cheese. Grilled and "girled" don't rhyme but they sound similar. I also just really don't see how Basset could really even be viewed as a reference to Pan. Maybe that's just me being un-educated or missing something, but I just really don't understand how the two characters, Pan and Basset are related. Or maybe I'm just a sub-conscious communist and want to criticize capitalism at every chance....
I don't think this is a valid argument, simply because of the fact that the writer couldn't even make me understand the connection. Like I said before, maybe I'm just missing something... but I don't think so.
1. Humma's paints "The Rocking Horse Winner" as a religious story in which the characters answer to one god; but in this case, the god is Pan, a half-man, half-goat, typically referred to as a satyr. In past centuries he has fallen into literary recluse, but he is best known for his embodiment of nature. Humma uses similarities between the character Bassett in the Rocking Horse Winner and this fairly unknown god and portray's them as the same being.
2. Humma acknowledge's many points of similarity that are convincing, such as the fact that Bassett and Pan are both simple but ultimately wise and persuasive creatures. Bassett controls Paul's horse racing obsession and uses it to his own advantage, while Pan held sway over many followers thousands of years ago, as well as mytholigical beings, and was described as both wonderful and terrible. Another convincing fact is that Bassett's main interest in horse racing, or just horses in general; and the essay clearly states that Pan is also associated with horses, with examples as evidence.
3. Despite a few coincidentary facts, overall Humma seemed as if he was making a stretch. One such weak point in his logic is that he somehow formed a loose connection between Bassett's limp and Pan's inability to walk normally because of his goat legs. Pan was not truly crippled. Furthermore, many of Humma's arguments tried to relate many other aspects of the story, such as Paul acting like a machine as he rides the rocking horse constantly, in poor reference to God being found in a horse.
FIRST!
4. No, this is not a valid argument. There are not enough directly related points amd there is a much more valid predominating reference: capitalism is a home wrecker.
-The importance of Paul and his moms conversation is that it reveals the main point of the story.
-The Pan story is summed up on this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(god)
-The claim that Snodgrass makes is that the story is talking about a religious perversion and the horse symbolizes that.
Briana,
Great definition for symbolic diminishment.
i get how humma makes the comparison of bassett . bassett represents the evil version of the god pan as a mechanical , depressed man. bassett's cynical view of life and money influences paul to be as mechanical and dead as he is. paul kills himself in the beginning when he rides the rocking horse to obtain luck , but luck isnt something you get its something you are.
by riding the rocking horse , paul gives in to bassett and his mother's dismal view of life that money is everything, and he gives away his life to get money . he is dead from then on in the story not physically but spiritually until the end of the story when he actually goes nuts and dies.
the rocking horse is a story about religious perversion because paul's mind is twisted by bassett as pan or the devil and his obsession with wealth causes him to loose himself and focus on the one thing that drives man crazy in the form of money and greed.
Ian,
You really think that garden has nothing to do with nature. Please explain yourself.
George,
You summarized it perfectly and showed the strengths and weaknesses of the argument. I guess the question is do you find his argument useful, or even valid?
Val,
You convinced me. I think you accurately represented the strengths and weaknesses of his argument to decide it was invalid.
Samantha,
You state that Humma's believes that the conversation between Paul and his mom reveals the main point. Why? How does Humma convince you of that?
his arguement is useful to a fault , if the idea of pan wasnt brought up in the first place , i wouldnt have thought about at all. the captalism idea makes more sense in today's world , that s why it made more sense than the pan arguement.
I agree that this story shows how bassett is the antithesis of pan when it explains that pan was once connected to horses and in Lawrence’s peace that’s how bassett is presented. And in the rocking horse bassett is a gardener which shows a piece of pan in that he is the God of nature so this shows that bassett and pan are connected, and important.
Briana,
You hit it spot on. Humas bases his theory on a possible writer mistake that would highlight that section of the story. He then looks for a message there. What do you think of the base of that argument?
I want to explain mechanism more. This is a little complex, so if anyone has any questions or need clarifications, let me know.
We tend to view the pre-industrial times as ideal. We imagine people were happier back then when they lived in close knit communities and farmed. That isn’t necessarily true, but that is a strong cultural view. Then the 20th century arrived, along with two World Wars, a great depression, various genocides, and a cold war. We became pessimistic as a people as we imagined that we watched our society crumble. We believed humanity was becoming less moral. So, to understand that concept, we use the term “mechanism” of people, you know, humans have become machines (inhuman).
I agree that this story shows how bassett is the antithesis of pan when it explains that pan was once connected to horses and in Lawrence’s peace that’s how bassett is presented. And in the rocking horse bassett is a gardener which shows a piece of pan in that he is the God of nature so this shows that bassett and pan are connected, and important.
I agree that this story shows how bassett is the antithesis of pan when it explains that pan was once connected to horses and in Lawrence’s peace that’s how bassett is presented. And in the rocking horse bassett is a gardener which shows a piece of pan in that he is the God of nature so this shows that bassett and pan are connected, and important.
The importance of Paul and his mom's conversation in the story shows that it revolves around the story's central message. These two words "filthy lucker" and "filthy lucre" are of importance to the story because the story is centered around luck. Luck is a big factor in the story. It reveals that Paul believes in his luck is coming from God.
The established claim by Snodgrass that the author uses to make argument is that - the story is talking about some sort of religious perversion. The argument is that no one knows what sort? or who the strange gods are. And how Paul serves them and recieves their information.
Luck is an involuntarily achieved state. It is the condition of existing in vital relation with the universe. Its definition contributes to the story by the way Paul searches for luck. He uses his rocking horse, which is like his relation and interaction with the universe, but really he cant obtain luck because someone cannot give you luck, you either are lucky or you aren't.
The thesis Paul's confusion does make the story go, for the conversation between mother and son leads to Paul's assertion that, unlike the rest of the family, he is a "lucky person".
Details that are explained through one of the Pan stories- Pan & the Wanderings of Demeter- show that both Pan & Paul were searching for something. Paul searching for luck, Pan searching for Demeter.
The Pan story is that Pan was the gods of shepherds, flocks, mountains wilds, hunting, and rustic music. In Arkadia he wandered the hills and mountains playing his pan-pipes and chasing Nympths. He caused panic to those men passing through the remote because he was unseen. Pan was seen as a man with horns, legs, and tail of a goat. He had a thick beard, snub nose and pointed ears.
The Pan story has evolved because first he tended and acted like human to the lions, then he is becoming considered a god to Athens.
Class,
I have a question. You all have pointed out various weaknesses in the argument, but there is one that I see. I would like you opinion though. What do you think of Humma's argument that pan is involved at all being base on the fact that that he connect pan, a mythical "god," to Paul assertion using "god"?
George,
You hit upon a common debate among interpreters. How valid is personal experiences in interpreting works of art?
Some strong points are when they state that no one can hid from death that even the greatest (pan) do die at some point in time and that Paul and pan were working to help other and there for working as machines that couldn’t handle reality any longer.
Taylor,
But don't you see a problem with Humma claiming Basset is Pan in these ways, but then a perversion of Pan in others. Which way it is?
Cara,
Can you rewrite this in your own words?
"Luck is an involuntarily achieved state. It is the condition of existing in vital relation with the universe. Its definition contributes to the story by the way Paul searches for luck. He uses his rocking horse, which is like his relation and interaction with the universe, but really he cant obtain luck because someone cannot give you luck, you either are lucky or you aren't."
Taylor,
Good Points!
Weak points in this essay are when you find out that luck comes from nature and nature is a God. If nature is a God then why didn’t he elaborate on pan more to show a connection.
I see a problom in that he claims bassett is the opposite of pan because bassett is different then pan , but if the writer is trying to relate pan to a character in the 20th century then this would be the way to do it.With realting pan to the opposite of himself then this creates bassetts role in the story tieing to pans role as a god.
Class,
Taylor asked a great question, and I am wondering if we can solve it together.
I think he did try to elaborate on pan. What were is connections? Basset of course. Can anyone explain to me how Humma argues that Basset is a Pan figure?
The conversation between Paul and his mother is important because it shows the misconception of luck throughout the story. In the story luck is percieved as money, happiness, and love. What the mother tells Paul about luck makes Paul believe that if he can somehow become "lucky" then his mother will love him. He sees that see doesnt love his father and its mostly because he doesnt have money. This reveals Paul's desire to be loved by his mother.
The Pan story has evolved because Pan was seen as a mythical creature that is very fond of "wild places". He was seen as more of a god figure then anything else. Pan represented victory. Now Pan is represented as sinister, that symbolizes Nature. It makes him look like a demon but it still shows he is honest and primal.
According to the essay luck is the state of well-being which comes when is in relation witht the world around him. The writer says Paul's "sin" that ultimatley destroys him is that he seperates himself from the world by staying on his rocking horse. He believes Pauls concept of luck is all wrong. Instead of creating a relationship with the world around him he kind of cuts them off and alienates himself to his rocking horse.
I do not think that the writer has a valid argument. His points are weak and noone seems to be agreeing with what he says. He presented all his facts in a very confusing manner. He connects things in the story to Pan that dont really make sense. He makes Bassett out to be the controller of Paul but throughout the story Bassett just kind of followed behind Paul and went along with whatever he thought was the right horse.
A symbloic diminishment is the underlying meaning that the reader has to think about and find what something really means.
Within Paul and his mom's conversation, many important parts of the story are revealed, such as the idea of luck causing someone to have money, and the confusion that Paul comes across with the work "lucker" and "lucre". This conversation reveals what kind of a person Paul's mother is, and it foreshadows the story because it is obvious that the whole thing will be about money and luck because it is mentioned so much in this conversation.
The established claim that Snodgrass makes is, "it is clear, then, that the story is talking about some sort of religious perversion." He asks what sort of perversion, and whi are the strange gods, and also how does Psul serve then and recieve their information.
Luck is an unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that causes an event to result one way rather than another. Luck contributes to the irony of the story because according to Paul's mother, luck is what makes you either have a lot of money, or have no money.
The Rocking Horse is deffinately connected to the description of Pan because the description says that Pan symbolizes Nature and Reality, while at the same time he is a terrible "demon", yet he is still honest and good. This is highly related to the rocking horse because it is seen as a harmful toy that innocent kids play with, but in the story the rocking horse really is a demon because it attracks Paul and causes him to work himself to death.
Paul's sin is his abstraction from life. Luck is the state of well-being which comes when one is in relation with the world around him. Paul is so involved with his horse that he no longer has time for what is going on around him, and that is what kills him.
The Rocking Horse Winner is a story about religious perversion because Paul sins against God, who in the story is Pan. Pauls turning point was when he gives himself over through mechanical endeavor, to learning luck from the abstract god of heaven.
Brittanee (and class):
You bring up a great point. You state that Humma believes that the rocking horse destroyed Paul because it separated him from the world. Well, what do you even make of that idea? How can being separate from the world hurt you? What could Humma mean? And do you think it is a valid idea?
Paul and his mothers conversation is important because is important to the pot of the story that he mistakes lucre for luck even though Humma says they sound nothing alike. In the story Paul gets them confused to show the audience that the mother believe that luck and money are intertwined.
The Pan Story is a story about a greek god called Pan who was half human half goat, his hind quarters were animal but from the abdomen up he looked like a man. Pan was a god from greek mythology that was a symbol for nature and reality.
Snodgrass says its unclear on what sort of religious perversion is being talking about in the story. The argument is that Snodgrass is unsure what god or gods are in the story and how do they give paul the information he needs to bet on the winning horse.
Luck is the force that seems to operate for good or ill in a persons life, as in shaping circumstances, event or opportunities. The definition of luck is ironic to the story because the more they want good luck the more they get bad luck.
When the essay says that paul is isolating himself more and more into mechanism it means he is closing of the world and almost working himself to death in order to make money.
Symbolic diminishment is when something or someone is a smaller or less important version of something else. In the story Basset is a symbolic diminishment of pan. Hummas argument is convincing on the fact that he says basset is a 20th century Basset.
Emily,
Can you explain what you mean by symbolic diminishment? How is Basset a smaller version than Pan?
Luck is the force that seems to operate for good or ill in a person's life, as in shaping circumstances, events, or opportunities. This contributes to the irony of the story because Paul is searching for "luck". Paul's idea of luck is really money. Paul's obsession over luck and money is what lead to his death thus making him unlucky
The importance of Paul and his Mother's conversation is it is the main idea of the story.This conversation makes Paul think that luck is money. Paul wants to make his Mother happy and knows that if he finds this luck or money his mother will love him for it.
The story of Pan is he is the Greek god of nature and also shepherds and flocks. He is half man half goat. Pan is now thought of as sinister and a demon.
The established claim that Snodgrass makes is "it is clear, then, that the story is talking about some sort of religious perversion." He also asks what sort of religious perversion?, Who are the strange gods?, and how does Paul serve them?
When the author says Paul "isolates himself more and more into mechanism" this means Paul is losing reality and becoming more of a robot. His thoughts are revolved around luck, money, and the rocking horse. This eventually kills Paul. He, in a way, worked himself to death.
According to the essay real luck is that state of well being which comes when one is in relation with the world around him. Pauls' sin that ultimately destroys him is his approach of luck is wrong from the start. Paul went into mystical trances when he believed he was talking to God in heaven. This was Paul losing his mind and this ends up being the death of him.
basset is a smaller version then pan because he is not a god but he is representing what pan is like in the story.
What established claim by Snodgrass does author use to make argument?
-Humma uses Snograss’s claim that the story is “about some sort of religious perversion.”
What is luck, and how does its definition contribute to the irony of the story?
-Humma states that, “luck is. . . an involuntarily achieved state.” This is ironic in comparison to the story because Paul’s mother tries to tell him that money equals lucky and because they are trying to find or achieve luck by earning money.
How has the Pan story evolved?
-The story of Pan has evolved from the original story of a goat-man that “insures the flock’s increase” into “an avenger of wrong’s inflicted upon animals.”
What does “isolates himself more and more into mechanism” mean?
- Humma says that “mechanism in Lawrence is death”. The quote “isolates himself more and more into mechanism” is referring to Paul, and when Paul visits the rocking horse he is separating himself, essentially causing his death.
How does the essay connect St. Mawr to Rocking Horse? How persuasive do you find this point?
- Pan is mentioned when Cartwright’s face is said to resemble Pan’s, and when Lou asks if they might find Pan in a horse, he replies with “Easily. In St. Mawr!”. I think Lawrence saying this, is showing that Pan is apparent in St. Mawr, therefore Pan could also be characterized in The Rocking-Horse Winner.
What does symbolic diminishment mean? What is Basset a symbolic diminishment of? Is his argument convincing?
- Symbolic diminishment means changing the form of the figure that is characterizing a person or thing in the story. Basset is a symbolic diminishment of the god Pan. I think Humma does a good job convincing the similarities between Pan and Basset, mainly because of his connection with nature, and all of the connections that Lawrence has made before of his characters’ representation of Pan.
1) Paul and his mother’s conversation is showing that Paul thinks that lucre and luck are the same thing because they sound similar, therefore this is showing that Paul thinks money, which is the definition of lucre, is the same thing as luck. Paul now thinks that he needs luck to have money. This revels that he is an unreliable character because he is just a child and doesn’t understand that money comes to people who work hard, not people that have luck.
2) Pan was depicted as a man with the horns, legs and tail of a goat, and with thick beard, snub nose and pointed ears. He was the god of shepherds and flocks, of mountain wilds, hunting and rustic music. He wandered the hills and mountains of Arkadia playing his pan-pipes and chasing Nymphs because he had a great love for them. Whenever he was not present in sight, men were panicked when they passed through lonely places of the wilds. (http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Pan.html)
3) This essay connects St. Mawr to the Rocking Horse because Lawrence sees a horse in Pan. Also in a conversation between Lewis-Lawrence and Rachel Witt enables us to see the extent of Lawrence’s prefrence for nature over the God in heaven.
Ryan,
Nice analysis coverning the irony of Paul's definition of luck!
Ryan,
Interesting point on cause of Paul's downfall: his inability to define luck.
Maria (and entire class),
Good answers, but next time, try not to quote directly from the analytical essay. Writing other's arguments and ideas into your own words helps you understand them.
1. Humma's argument does not make sense. Basing it on the fact that 'lucre' and 'lucker' supposedly don't sound alike it not good. They DO, in fact, sound a like, and Paul's confusion makes a lot of sense. Also, the 'Pan' concept isn't exactly a well-known thing, and the author seems to be assuming the reader will be familiar with the story. Also, Pan is never even mentioned, so making this connection is quite a leap.
2. A strong point would be the point made that Bassett is an important character. He is the force the pushes Paul to exert so much time and energy into finding his 'luck'.
3. Weak points would definitely the fact that Pan is not mentioned once in 'Rocking Horse Winner'. There are no clues in the story that the author had Pan in mind when he wrote it.
4. The argument does not seem valid to me, because of the previously mentioned reason in number 3, and the way Humma stresses that 'lucre' and 'lucker' don't even sound similar, when they certainly do.
Ginny,
You make a great argument. But I do have one critique. The pan story was, and still is in literary circles, a well known story. Many time period idealized Roman society. So, those enamored people would read Roman literature. We can safely assume that Lawrence, because of his passion for Roman culture, would have known it.
Well not everyone shares his passion for roman culture, though. He may have devoted lots of time to learning about it, but I think most people don't devote much time to learning such a thing.
1 His argument is that there is religious meaning and is connected to the god Pan
2 His strong points are that he does show some instances where the author talks about Pan and seems to like him. They do strengthen the argument because they show a connection between the author and Pan.
3 I think the whole essay is rather full of weak points because i just don't understand his idea, it's illogical to me.
4 This argument is invalid because it failed to convince me, the reader.
Amelia,
Can you tell me how essay connects Pan to the story? Once you work that out, the essay will be clearer. Can anyone in the class help us out?
1.Paul's conversation with his mom is important because it sets up the central messege of the story by revealing that he confuses luck lucre which connects the two.
2.The author uses Snodgrass's quote " it is clear that the story is talking about some sort of religious perversion.". He uses it to try and say how the story is based on religious perversion and that the religious figure of the story is Pan and not "strange gods".
3."Isolates himself more and more into mechanism" is talking about mans tendancy to overwork himself. He works so hard that he isolates himself from the world and peole around him so all that is left is the machine he is working wich he eventually becomes. In this story PAul is sending himself into overdrive on this rocking horse of his that eventually he will just go into some mechanical state.
4.Luck is something that you get involuntarily, and is the condition of existing in vital relation with the universe. Paul is trying his hardest to become lucky but relly its not something you work for just something are.
5.Pan is the god of shepherds and flocks, of mountain wilds, hunting and playing his music, and always in the precence of nymphs. He was a man with the horns, legs and tail of a goat.He scared a lot of guys because when they went through the woods by themselves they could hear his pan pipes but never see him.
6. PAns story has evolved from the ancient times inwhich he was thought to be a god by the Greeks to the 20th century where he becomes more of a demonic figure representing satan and synical nature.
Humma's argument is that there is some connection between Basset and Pam
Telling a little about Pan made it easier to understand and how Humma gave examples of other stories using Pan as a metaphor
I don't really understand how he's making this connection between Basset and Pan
I don't understand it well enough to think it valid or not
1. The importance of Paul and his mom's conversation is that it reveals the central theme of the story. Paul thinks that luck and money are similar because they sound alike. Later in the conversation Paul believes that in order to have money, you need money. This conversation foreshadows the entire story because it is the focused on luck and money.
2.Pan was the god of shepherds and flocks, of mountain wilds, hunting and rustic music. He was portrayed as a man with the horns, legs and tail of a goat, and with thick beard, snub nose and pointed ears. Greeks in the classical age associated his name with the word pan meaning all.
3.The established claim that Snodgrass made was "it is clear, then, that the story is talking about some sort of religious perversion."
4.The author stated that Paul "isolates himself more and more into mechanism." This means Paul is constantly going “back and forth” to his rocking horse and concentrating mainly on money like it is his job. All he is worried about is to gain love from his mother. This kind of work eventually leads to Paul’s death.
5.Symbolic diminishment is when a symbol is hidden behind other things in the story so that it is harder to reveal the truth about the symbol. Basset is a symbolic diminishment of nature. It was hard to relate the theme of nature from the story of Pan to the fact he was a gardener in The Rocking-Horse Winner.
6.The story of Pan symbolizes reality and nature and that is strongly connected to the story of The Rocking Horse Winner. Even though Pan is shown to demonstrate nature and reality, he is still looked upon as a demonic figure. A rocking horse is a toy that many children grow up with, but in this story it is portrayed in a bad way. Paul is working himself to death when he is constantly going to his rocking horse.
How does the initial conversation between Paul and mom reveal main message?
Humma claims that since the words do not sound alike so Paul would not have confused them, the author is highlighting the connection between the two.
How is the idea of god even connected to luck?
Paul says that he gets the answers from a god.
Basset must be a type of mythical god creature because he is the one helping Paul.
How is Basset connected to Pan????
1. Basset is identified with religious seriousness. Pan is a type of mythical god.
2. Pan figure was connected to horses. Basset introduced Paul to race horsing.
3. Basset is a gardener. Pan is connected to nature.
Meghan,
I like what you had to say about number four. Very nice.
As the apparently sub-conscious communist in this conversation, I must say, that even with the argument explained to me, I still think it's kind of pushing it.
Luck is something you cannot achieve. You can't obtain luck from working hard. Paul thought that he could which is why he became a slave to his rocking horse, and why he became isolated from the world.
I wanted to correct myself about Basset being the opposite of Pan. Really he is just a perverted Pan, seen threw symbolization of him being the Gardner. Instead of being one with nature, he is the one controlling it which i thought is a good comparison to how Basset is like Pan.
Grace, I agree with your comment on how his argument can't be all that valid since he failed to convince us that his point made sense.
I have to say that I can see where the idea of Bassett and Pan being related, but I think that it is also a big stretch. Reading the story today, noone would be able to make that connection. But once knowing the story, it seems to make fair enough sense.
I like the point that Rebecca has about Paul thinking money is luck and him being an unreliable character because it sets up the rest of the story well. And it is easier understand the deeper meaning behind the story when you know what parts to take seriously and which ones to read into more.
i think the arguement makes sense , its not great , but it makes sense.
GO PHILLIES!
The conversation between Paul and his mother reveals alot about the story. I understand how a god may be connected to this story in that Paul remarked, 'God told me'. However, the god in particular may not be the obscure Pan, it may be the god so commonly known around the world; the single Christian God. Maybe Lawrence was trying to incorporate into this peice about the corruption of capitalism that their is one institution lying seperate from government and economics, where true believers don't base happiness off material things: Christianity. It seems as if Pan would be reffered to as 'the god' which implies that there are many, as oppose to 'God' because ancient religions and those outside of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, are polytheistic instead of monotheistic as ours clames to be. Pan belongs to a diverse religion in which there are many gods.
Also i hope noone views this comment as the biased rantings of some religious nut because I am actually agnostic.
Julia,
Thank you. I like what you said in your number four. How he is just trying to gain the love of his mom.
I understand the capitalist interpretation of The Rocking-Horse Winner much more than the Pan interpretation. I think this makes more sense because the comparisons are more visible within the capitalism analysis, such as Paul being like the average working man. It is easier to understand that Paul is like a worker, because he is the one making the money, but not receiving the profit. Paul’s mother and his uncle are easily connected to being like big business owners because they are stealthily spending all of the money produced by Paul’s efforts. This makes more sense because money is actually in the story originally. The idea presented in the Pan interpretation is a far stretch because Pan is not referenced or even stated in the story at all.
Although I understand the similarities made between Pan and Basset, I don’t really think that there are enough to necessarily say that Lawrence was attempting to portray Pan through Basset. I think the capitalist comparison is a lot more comprehendible and apparent in The Rocking-Horse Winner.
Bassett can be related to a god because paul says god tells him he's lucky and bassett says he is lucky. This may show that paul sees bassett as a god figure. I think its a good point but I think that all together this comparasion doesn't make as much sense as the capitalism theory.
I believe that Lawrence making bassett the opposite of pan in his short story was clever. Being able to relate 2 totally different characters in a story without mentioning the 1 is in my opinion clever writing.
The connection between Pan and Bassett to me is irrelevant. The story of Pan doesn't stick out to many readers so they wouldn't understand the connection at first. I think that Humma does a pretty good job at trying to explain why Bassett is similar to Pan but he doesn't convince me because a lot of his arguments could be swayed either way showing that Bassett is actually the total opposite of Pan so it doesn't make sense to me.
I thought a good point was when Pan was compared as the opposite of Basset, as Basset being a gardener and Pan being connected to nature. A weak point is even though we know the story about Pan ,as we read and watched Peter Pan when we were little, but the story of Pan is not told or referenced. Overall I think that the story, The Rocking Horse Winner, is better related to a criticism of capitalism because of how Paul ends up doing all the work and gets to spend none of the money, and she spends it all in about one day, and he ultimately dies because of that. That is how capitalism is. I do not think it is a valid argument.
-The importance of Paul and his mothers' conversation is that he thinks she says "filthy lucre", but she really says "filthy lucker", which makes this misunderstanding the main conflict in the story.
-Pan is the god of sheep herders, and also of nature and reality. In modern text, he is sometimes seen as a demon.
-Humma claims that the story is about some sort of religious perversion.
-Luck is an involuntary achieved state, and this is ironic to the story because Pauls' mom says luck is money, not God.
- Pans' story has evolved from a person generally depicted as being human to the lions, to beingrecognized in Athens.
-Paul isolates himself more and more into mechanism because he is pushing away from his mother and working himself to death.
Julia,
You have a good point about Pan being a demonic figure since the rocking horse is something a child would usually play with and have fun with but in this case it is actually bad thing.
Cara,
Your right about luck can't be obtained from working hard.
I agree a lot with briana because most of the readers would not recognize the connection between Pan and Bassett. Humma does do a very good job of backing up his connection with a lot of support though. I just feel that I would have never even known about Pan if Ms. Rotter had not shown us this essay.
The tie between capitalism and The Rocking Horse Winner was very clear throughout the whole story and i understood all of the clues and symbols that connected the two. The argument that Humma writes about was also clear to me but only in the end when everything was explained. It took alot longer for Humma's point to make sense to me because his was a little more complex, but in the end he had a good argument and i agree with what he said about Pan and Bassett being related in many ways.
Val,
Actually your comment was very insightful. Writers incorporate many religions images and allusion into stories and no matter what our faith is, or lack of faith, we need to be aware of them so we can interpret those stories.
I think you made an interesting point. I went back to the story and noticed that God was capitalized. That seems to support your reading.
So, even is Pan is not important, perhaps religion still is. I am not sure how you would see this religion as uncorrupted by capitalism in the story though. Remember, Basset still seems to be connected to religion in some way but he seems to be the one who helps corrupt Paul. What do you make of that?
George,
Go Phillies is right! What a game!
Maria,
Very clear, concise, and persuasive!
Julia and Rbescca,
Wonderful analysis of rocking horse. Do you think Paul is evil to begin with, or the rocking horse makes him that way? Explain.
Brooke (and class),
You brought up a good point. Yes, this argument is very complex so it did take many steps to make. Usually the more complex the argument, the longer the essay.
Class,
I swear to you guys the pan story is well known. Even though you might not have known the original story, you knew the basic because all of you knew it through Peter Pan. There are cultural stories authors rely on. Just because you may not be aware of them yet in your early academic careers does not mean authors did not use those stories. Try to keep an open mind.
Taylor (and class),
Always look for connections. Great literature usually alludes to something whether it be greek mythology, religious stories, or even other books.
Harold Bloom (a famous and well known literary critic) argues that all writers suffer from an "anxiety of influence". He states that all writers are nervous because of all the great stories written before them. They wonder how they will make their own mark, write their own stories. Writers write aware of literature history, Bloom reasons, so writers must respond to those previous stories in some way, and rework those previous stories to make them their own. Only then can writers gain their voice.
That is a bit complex, but do you guys understand the idea? Can anyone explain it clearer? Can anyone think of any examples where you see a writer rewrite an older story.
Becca Rosetti
When I first read the debate between the Paul and his mother with the phrase "filthy lucre" and "filthy lucker" in the story, it immediately jumped out at me as being related to greed, due to the word filthy being put next to luck. I dont think that was a writers mistake and that it was supposed to be there because usually when you hear about luck, it has to do with money and greed. The majority of the time we see it as a positive vibe like winning the lottery, but there is always the evil background vibe that you get from gambling and how gambling can produce more of a negative impact than a positive one. Therefore automatically when the phrase "filthy lucre" and "filthy lucker" came up, the feeling that bad luck will follow good luck around, floated in the back of my mind. Especially until the end of the story where the phrase proved it's point where Paul "worked himself to death" portraying a capitalistic society of how working classes function.
Rebecca,
I am glad to hear some more support for the essay. You made a good argument to support Humma, and even better, you started to combine the two arguments, finding strong points in each!
Reading Humma's essay, I can see the connection. I agree that there is connection between Pan and Basset. Humma brings up some very strong points as he tries to argue that Basset is the 20th century perversion of Pan. But.. Weither or not Lawrance had planned that to be while writting "The Rocking Horse Winner," I'm not too sure. This whole Pan thing could just be overanalyzing the story a tad..
Taylor,
I also think it was clever of Lawerance to referance a charicter thats not involved in the story through another charicter, without even mentioning the first charicter. Very Nice Thinking!
The Pan story may be wel known among scholors, who make a point to learn it and study mythology, but the average high school student, who has very little background involving mythology, may not be familiar with the story.
Ginny,
You just learned it :)
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